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	<title>Comments on: Statement from Noam Chomsky sent to TBNYU!</title>
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	<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ricky</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-3200</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-3200</guid>
		<description>a collection of 2,500 year old borrowed Babylonian myths? Both Judaism and Islam fit that category, seeing as it was the same mythology that became the backbone of both religions. (Christianity too, for that matter.) Since both the Palestinians and Israelis are fond of "2500 year old borrowed Babylonian stories" such as those of Isaac and Ishmael and Abraham and God, this "fact" adds nothing to the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a collection of 2,500 year old borrowed Babylonian myths? Both Judaism and Islam fit that category, seeing as it was the same mythology that became the backbone of both religions. (Christianity too, for that matter.) Since both the Palestinians and Israelis are fond of &#8220;2500 year old borrowed Babylonian stories&#8221; such as those of Isaac and Ishmael and Abraham and God, this &#8220;fact&#8221; adds nothing to the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: David K.</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2558</link>
		<dc:creator>David K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2558</guid>
		<description>As an adherant to what David Cohen refers to as 'a collection of 2,500 year old Babylonian myths' (I believe he was referring to Judaism), I feel quite insulted.   Where is is multicultural sensitivity?  

I think a little sensitivity training is in order.  

Also in need of such training are Keri Lyons and Nadia Collado, who demonstrated topless in front of Kimmel in what they called “a show of solidarity for Take Back NYU.”  What would the clerics at the University of Gaza think about their actions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an adherant to what David Cohen refers to as &#8216;a collection of 2,500 year old Babylonian myths&#8217; (I believe he was referring to Judaism), I feel quite insulted.   Where is is multicultural sensitivity?  </p>
<p>I think a little sensitivity training is in order.  </p>
<p>Also in need of such training are Keri Lyons and Nadia Collado, who demonstrated topless in front of Kimmel in what they called “a show of solidarity for Take Back NYU.”  What would the clerics at the University of Gaza think about their actions?</p>
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		<title>By: NYU Occupation Media Round-Up &#124; ARTHUR MAGAZINE - WE FOUND THE OTHERS</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2539</link>
		<dc:creator>NYU Occupation Media Round-Up &#124; ARTHUR MAGAZINE - WE FOUND THE OTHERS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2539</guid>
		<description>[...] for widening the vistas of possible realities. Read Noam Chomsky&#8217;s letter of endorsement, here  addthis_url = [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for widening the vistas of possible realities. Read Noam Chomsky&#8217;s letter of endorsement, here  addthis_url = [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris the Greek</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2502</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris the Greek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2502</guid>
		<description>this comes as a surprise since Chomsky has said that divesting from corporations that have to do with israel won't work in the US due to the strong ties that (virtually all) corporations have with israel.
right now of all the people posting for divesting strategies in this site, whoever runs microsoft or has a computer with an intel processor has paid companies that are strongly connected with israel.

anyways, still good times, chomsky is not a leader of the left (he's too old anyways to do that) but his opinions and arguements are very valid.
i read some posts accusing him of this and that; baseless personal insults are ridiculous, and totally unrelated with any political discussion. even if for the sake of arguement we accept that w/e chomsky is accused of is true, that has nothing to do with his opinions.
the validity of an opinion is detached from the person voicing that opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this comes as a surprise since Chomsky has said that divesting from corporations that have to do with israel won&#8217;t work in the US due to the strong ties that (virtually all) corporations have with israel.<br />
right now of all the people posting for divesting strategies in this site, whoever runs microsoft or has a computer with an intel processor has paid companies that are strongly connected with israel.</p>
<p>anyways, still good times, chomsky is not a leader of the left (he&#8217;s too old anyways to do that) but his opinions and arguements are very valid.<br />
i read some posts accusing him of this and that; baseless personal insults are ridiculous, and totally unrelated with any political discussion. even if for the sake of arguement we accept that w/e chomsky is accused of is true, that has nothing to do with his opinions.<br />
the validity of an opinion is detached from the person voicing that opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2470</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2470</guid>
		<description>Noam Chomsky's support is perfect for this cause.

He is, of course, the man who was paid by the Pentagon for decades while railing against the Military Industrial Complex, has set up several tax shelters for himself and invested in War profiteers while declaring the evils of capitalism.    In short, his views are just as wonderfully fractured and poorly thought out as the list of demands for this protest!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noam Chomsky&#8217;s support is perfect for this cause.</p>
<p>He is, of course, the man who was paid by the Pentagon for decades while railing against the Military Industrial Complex, has set up several tax shelters for himself and invested in War profiteers while declaring the evils of capitalism.    In short, his views are just as wonderfully fractured and poorly thought out as the list of demands for this protest!</p>
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		<title>By: Hitler</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2364</link>
		<dc:creator>Hitler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 04:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2364</guid>
		<description>I would like to express my support for the actions of the students who are calling on their universities to end their participation in the brutal oppression of Palestinians by divesting from corporations that participate in and profit from these crimes, in violation of international and US law.

Sincerely,

Hitler
Founder, Chancellor 
Nazi Party 
Third Reich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to express my support for the actions of the students who are calling on their universities to end their participation in the brutal oppression of Palestinians by divesting from corporations that participate in and profit from these crimes, in violation of international and US law.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Hitler<br />
Founder, Chancellor<br />
Nazi Party<br />
Third Reich</p>
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		<title>By: DoeSSSS Make a difference</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2325</link>
		<dc:creator>DoeSSSS Make a difference</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2325</guid>
		<description>Mr. Cohen,
       the article clipping you have posted is interesting.  I admit I did not know about this magaphone tactic and it is certainly food for thought.  But, with respect, your point is a non-sequitor and sort of a given.  Of course governments are going to use propaganda, what government doesn't?  You can't demonize one organization for using propaganda and then support another organization that uses propaganda.  But I don't really want to get into an Isreal Palestine debate with you here because it is such a complicated human topic with innocent victims on both side and real evil on both sides as well.  What I want to hit home, is the point; that many naysayers of this of this protest are not unsypathetic to the plight of people struggling to survive in the Gaza strip.  They are, rather, unsypathetic to the NYU protesters and the tactics that these NYU protesters have used.  Believe it or not sir, I have no twisted agenda, all I have is a passionate belief that these protesters have embarrassed their institution, the great city that the institution represents and their fellow Americans, they should be punished (not severely, because their crime was far from severe) and their demands should be ignored.  As a final point, Do you have any idea how much crime, poverty and suffering exists in the U.S.A?(if not then just look up New Orleans and Detroit's wiki pages and check the crime and poverty levels, while your at it check the per capita income for a household in Bronx county, a county in N.Y.C) why should an institution in the U.S.A offer more scholarships to bright people in a foreign country who cannot afford an education when there are bright people in this country who cannot afford an education, a health care plan or electricity.  If those kids really wanted to make an ethereal difference then they could have hopped on the b train into the Bronx and done some community service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Cohen,<br />
       the article clipping you have posted is interesting.  I admit I did not know about this magaphone tactic and it is certainly food for thought.  But, with respect, your point is a non-sequitor and sort of a given.  Of course governments are going to use propaganda, what government doesn&#8217;t?  You can&#8217;t demonize one organization for using propaganda and then support another organization that uses propaganda.  But I don&#8217;t really want to get into an Isreal Palestine debate with you here because it is such a complicated human topic with innocent victims on both side and real evil on both sides as well.  What I want to hit home, is the point; that many naysayers of this of this protest are not unsypathetic to the plight of people struggling to survive in the Gaza strip.  They are, rather, unsypathetic to the NYU protesters and the tactics that these NYU protesters have used.  Believe it or not sir, I have no twisted agenda, all I have is a passionate belief that these protesters have embarrassed their institution, the great city that the institution represents and their fellow Americans, they should be punished (not severely, because their crime was far from severe) and their demands should be ignored.  As a final point, Do you have any idea how much crime, poverty and suffering exists in the U.S.A?(if not then just look up New Orleans and Detroit&#8217;s wiki pages and check the crime and poverty levels, while your at it check the per capita income for a household in Bronx county, a county in N.Y.C) why should an institution in the U.S.A offer more scholarships to bright people in a foreign country who cannot afford an education when there are bright people in this country who cannot afford an education, a health care plan or electricity.  If those kids really wanted to make an ethereal difference then they could have hopped on the b train into the Bronx and done some community service.</p>
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		<title>By: Way Beyond You</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>Way Beyond You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>Ian,

Appeals to the administration for kindness to the students may accomplish something in the short term to remediate the damages that the student action has done to the students themselves. But unless the students understand that they are and have acted under a false premise, a mistaken understanding of social relations, then they and others like them will commit themselves to similarly futile, defeatist enterprises in the future.  This is the agglomeration of piece-meal, fragmentary, identity politics leftism in the US, which operates as if isolated elements in the system can be addressed one at a time, independent of the whole, and treated like a cancer. Such an approach seeks to isolate and treat each reified instance as utterly disconnected from the whole. If only Israel wouldn't bomb the Gaza, if only NYU would give scholarships to Gaza students, if only, if only, if only... 

But NONE of these issues can be approached as single-issue items, or as an amalgam of cobbled together items, treated outside of the socio-economic and historical context and the whole organization of society under capitalism. And to treat them as such is to run the risks that these students have run: they have endangered their academic careers for a futile effort, because they operate from a false premise--that some sort of "action," some mayhem, some "activist" trouble-making will effect change, when the total system is going to adjust to such disequilibrium in an instant, and restore order immediately. All that has happened is that the students have endangered their futures and made their own possible maneuverings in the world more difficult. And they have gained nothing from this sacrifice. Because liberal activism is flawed in its orientation due to a failure to understand the nature of the enemy, or the task at hand. I am not arguing for the status quo. I am arguing for an intelligent, programmatic and effective approach to changing it. And this sort of activity is not at all recommended.

The fact is, such liberal, progressive, radical "left" politics is doomed. It has no idea that you cannot lobby a corporation to be a nicer corporation because there are other compensations that will take place. Israel is the imperialist outpost of US capitalism, and it will not go away as such without ending capitalism. Period.

Similarly, private institutions will charge money, exploit their workers, alienate students, and tend toward higher prices, as long as private institutions exist. PERIOD.

The answer is to work with program, a party of the workers, to end the system that produces this entire reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian,</p>
<p>Appeals to the administration for kindness to the students may accomplish something in the short term to remediate the damages that the student action has done to the students themselves. But unless the students understand that they are and have acted under a false premise, a mistaken understanding of social relations, then they and others like them will commit themselves to similarly futile, defeatist enterprises in the future.  This is the agglomeration of piece-meal, fragmentary, identity politics leftism in the US, which operates as if isolated elements in the system can be addressed one at a time, independent of the whole, and treated like a cancer. Such an approach seeks to isolate and treat each reified instance as utterly disconnected from the whole. If only Israel wouldn&#8217;t bomb the Gaza, if only NYU would give scholarships to Gaza students, if only, if only, if only&#8230; </p>
<p>But NONE of these issues can be approached as single-issue items, or as an amalgam of cobbled together items, treated outside of the socio-economic and historical context and the whole organization of society under capitalism. And to treat them as such is to run the risks that these students have run: they have endangered their academic careers for a futile effort, because they operate from a false premise&#8211;that some sort of &#8220;action,&#8221; some mayhem, some &#8220;activist&#8221; trouble-making will effect change, when the total system is going to adjust to such disequilibrium in an instant, and restore order immediately. All that has happened is that the students have endangered their futures and made their own possible maneuverings in the world more difficult. And they have gained nothing from this sacrifice. Because liberal activism is flawed in its orientation due to a failure to understand the nature of the enemy, or the task at hand. I am not arguing for the status quo. I am arguing for an intelligent, programmatic and effective approach to changing it. And this sort of activity is not at all recommended.</p>
<p>The fact is, such liberal, progressive, radical &#8220;left&#8221; politics is doomed. It has no idea that you cannot lobby a corporation to be a nicer corporation because there are other compensations that will take place. Israel is the imperialist outpost of US capitalism, and it will not go away as such without ending capitalism. Period.</p>
<p>Similarly, private institutions will charge money, exploit their workers, alienate students, and tend toward higher prices, as long as private institutions exist. PERIOD.</p>
<p>The answer is to work with program, a party of the workers, to end the system that produces this entire reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Way Beyond You</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2302</link>
		<dc:creator>Way Beyond You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2302</guid>
		<description>david cohen,

You have taught me nothing, except that you have absolutely no understanding of political history, ideology, or historically effective political action. 

Noam Chomsky represents a completely impossible and utterly ineffectual political "ideal"--anarchism--which has never and will never effect anything, because it is based  on a false premise, that "government" (or organizations, or what have you) itself is the issue, rather than that the class-character of the government is the issue. 
Those who understand that the government under capitalism is the organizing committee of the ruling class understand that government PER SE is not the problem, but rather class-based government of the bourgeoisie (or whatever ruling class in history, including the aristocrats). The proletariat, taking over the government, does not abolish government. It abolishes the class-character of government. 

Chomsky has no ideas for anything other than criticizing Israel from a standpoint of the "left" and some notion that US imperialism and its outpost in Israel could be abolished without abolishing capitalism itself. Israel is an occupying force fully endorsed and buttressed by the imperialist enterprises of the US. That cannot be otherwise under capitalism, which is always going to be imperialistic. 

It is not possible to abolish the imperialism of the US without abolishing capitalism. But Chomsky eschews and condemns as "authoritarian" those actual revolutionaries that have actually made revolution against capitalism. And instead, he encourages this sort of piece-meal, unprogramatic, anarchic, clueless, defeatist, naive and unfortunately defeating forms of protest and action that have not gained a thing and cannot gain a thing. 

They cannot work because you don't LOBBY a corporation to be "nicer" corporations, as such. No, you do away with corporations. You don't ask for a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand of the bourgeois state. You do away with the bourgeois state. Actions that are predicated on a false understanding of the socio-political and economic realities are doomed to failure. Period. That's why this action will result in the career suicides of a few while delivering nothing for the many. 

"This is what democracy looks like?" NO, this is not what democracy looks like. Democracy is inconsistent with a corporate-owned and run university. The students occupied such a building. Such an occupation cannot be democratic because the owners are the arbiters of the space, and what goes on there. Democracy doesn't exist in such a setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>david cohen,</p>
<p>You have taught me nothing, except that you have absolutely no understanding of political history, ideology, or historically effective political action. </p>
<p>Noam Chomsky represents a completely impossible and utterly ineffectual political &#8220;ideal&#8221;&#8211;anarchism&#8211;which has never and will never effect anything, because it is based  on a false premise, that &#8220;government&#8221; (or organizations, or what have you) itself is the issue, rather than that the class-character of the government is the issue.<br />
Those who understand that the government under capitalism is the organizing committee of the ruling class understand that government PER SE is not the problem, but rather class-based government of the bourgeoisie (or whatever ruling class in history, including the aristocrats). The proletariat, taking over the government, does not abolish government. It abolishes the class-character of government. </p>
<p>Chomsky has no ideas for anything other than criticizing Israel from a standpoint of the &#8220;left&#8221; and some notion that US imperialism and its outpost in Israel could be abolished without abolishing capitalism itself. Israel is an occupying force fully endorsed and buttressed by the imperialist enterprises of the US. That cannot be otherwise under capitalism, which is always going to be imperialistic. </p>
<p>It is not possible to abolish the imperialism of the US without abolishing capitalism. But Chomsky eschews and condemns as &#8220;authoritarian&#8221; those actual revolutionaries that have actually made revolution against capitalism. And instead, he encourages this sort of piece-meal, unprogramatic, anarchic, clueless, defeatist, naive and unfortunately defeating forms of protest and action that have not gained a thing and cannot gain a thing. </p>
<p>They cannot work because you don&#8217;t LOBBY a corporation to be &#8220;nicer&#8221; corporations, as such. No, you do away with corporations. You don&#8217;t ask for a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand of the bourgeois state. You do away with the bourgeois state. Actions that are predicated on a false understanding of the socio-political and economic realities are doomed to failure. Period. That&#8217;s why this action will result in the career suicides of a few while delivering nothing for the many. </p>
<p>&#8220;This is what democracy looks like?&#8221; NO, this is not what democracy looks like. Democracy is inconsistent with a corporate-owned and run university. The students occupied such a building. Such an occupation cannot be democratic because the owners are the arbiters of the space, and what goes on there. Democracy doesn&#8217;t exist in such a setting.</p>
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		<title>By: david cohen</title>
		<link>http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/22/statement-from-noam-chomsky-sent-to-tbnyu/#comment-2286</link>
		<dc:creator>david cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takebacknyu.com/?p=727#comment-2286</guid>
		<description>Red herring central compliments of "DoesSSSSS Make a difference". Actually many people do care about the correctness of arguments and you and your cronies use of propaganda techniques is despicable. For any wondering why this blog was slammed by the opposition give this a read.

"The Megaphone desktop tool is a Windows "action alert" tool developed by Give Israel Your United Support (GIYUS) and distributed by World Union of Jewish Students, World Jewish Congress, The Jewish Agency for Israel, World Zionist Organization, StandWithUs, Hasbara fellowships, HonestReporting, and other pro-Israel public relations, media watchdog, or activism organizations. The tool delivers real-time alerts about key articles, videos, blogs, and surveys related to Israel or the Arab-Israeli conflict, especially those perceived by GIYUS to be highly critical of Israel, so that users can vote or add comments expressing their support of Israel. The tool was released in July during the 2006 Lebanon War. An RSS newsfeed is available so that non-Windows users may also receive the Megaphone "action alerts."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Red herring central compliments of &#8220;DoesSSSSS Make a difference&#8221;. Actually many people do care about the correctness of arguments and you and your cronies use of propaganda techniques is despicable. For any wondering why this blog was slammed by the opposition give this a read.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Megaphone desktop tool is a Windows &#8220;action alert&#8221; tool developed by Give Israel Your United Support (GIYUS) and distributed by World Union of Jewish Students, World Jewish Congress, The Jewish Agency for Israel, World Zionist Organization, StandWithUs, Hasbara fellowships, HonestReporting, and other pro-Israel public relations, media watchdog, or activism organizations. The tool delivers real-time alerts about key articles, videos, blogs, and surveys related to Israel or the Arab-Israeli conflict, especially those perceived by GIYUS to be highly critical of Israel, so that users can vote or add comments expressing their support of Israel. The tool was released in July during the 2006 Lebanon War. An RSS newsfeed is available so that non-Windows users may also receive the Megaphone &#8220;action alerts.&#8221;</p>
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