NYU’s use of force and violence
Feb 21st, 2009 by Take Back NYU!
During the Kimmel Center occupation, NYU several times initiated violence with both demonstrators and occupiers alike.
Video at NY1 shows the mayhem outside, where NYPD night-sticked, pepper-sprayed and tased demonstrators during the midnight rally. NYU remains silent on the use of violence against students expressing their support for the occupation, while at the same time trumpeting its concerns about minor property damage inside the occupation. This once again shows where the administration’s priorities lie.
Similar for the inside. Every student participating in the occupation has a story about NYU initiating force against them - be it during attempts to reach the occupation with students in solidarity, or when trying to exit the building. During both efforts to enter the building during the occupation, NYU positioned its largest guards at doors, and had them use fists, elbows, knees and feet in their attempt to shut down a peaceful protest.
Initiating the use of force against students cannot be accepted. NYU’s reaction during the occupation is profoundly disappointing considering their stated commitment to dialog and progressive politics both. We hope this event is a bell-weather in encouraging NYU to reconsider how it interacts with non-violent protesters.
The real story of the occupation will be told by the voices and bruises of Take Back NYU! members who participated, not by the frustrated public pronouncements of our administration.
you are so full of it! when is sending two security guards to the hospital, breaking down a door, and on two occasions rushing guards standing at barricades you made considered a “peaceful protest”?
So the fact that security guards were injured first by students forcibly trying to enter the building should be ignored? A female officer was hit on the head! A male officer was sent to the hospital! You fault the university for spinning the story, but you seem to be doing the same thing here…
Man, you guys are lame. You can’t have a “cause” and then add other “causes” like Palestinian education (and what better way to demonstrate your irrelevancy, than putting this in your list of demands). If you have a true and just cause, a legitimate end goal, then it is singular in nature and people in charge may take you seriously. But when you ask for the kitchen sink, as demanded by TBNYU, you look unfocused and silly. Lastly, those in the protest don’t demonstrate ‘courage’ or adherence to the cause (which cause? got me, ask them) by making your first demand “we don’t get in trouble for this.”
This is clearly just a case of bored teenagers with scant idea of how the real world works and how to effectively enact change. Why not just got smoke a bowl and shoot the breeze? About as effective and a lot less trouble.
So you have no sympathy for your fellow classmates?
The police can do whatever the hell they want if and when they feel threatened. If force was used, it was called for. You guys have dug a very deep hole for yourself, and calling technicalities right now isn’t getting you out of it.
Want to sue the city? Good luck.
You all have taken absolutely no responsibility for the failure of this effort. You look like a bunch of disorganized children and the protest outside was far from peaceful. Pushing police officers is not “non-violent” by any means. Following these actions up with then taunting these same police officers, (who were acting in self-defense mind you, which is even obvious in those videos posted by supporters of the cause), and driving them into anger is also hardly peaceful. Your anger should not be directed at those who are there to DO THEIR JOBS.
“The real story of the occupation will be told by the voices and bruises of Take Back NYU!”
Hey guys! Don’t forget there were students and protesters fighting out there that weren’t with Take Back NYU eh? Solidarity.
You’re fucking unbelievable. Bum rushing a private building, closed by the owners, is an act of physical aggression, not a peaceful protest. The guards where just reacted as their jobs required. Get over yourselves.
You spelled bellwether wrong.
OMGzzz, you guys are so badasssss taking over Kimmel, like little Che Guevaras or Lenins but without the mass murders! It’s like the segregation sit-ins except with tons of vegan food and bathroom breaks. Isn’t it awesome to recreate fantasies of the 1960s, but this time with more rich white trust-account guilt, pointless posturing and sloganeering, and sheer arrogance!? And congratulations on breaking a female guard’s arm tonight! That’ll show the patriarchal establishment who is boss.
Also, I don’t think you guys are going far enough. NYU should have ZERO tuition, instead they can make money by growing hemp or asking mom and dad in New Jersey for some cash (hey, it works for us rebels!). But that doesn’t mean NYU should stop spending - if Bobst is going to have hundreds of people from the community come in at all times, we definitely need to keep plenty of copies of Howard Zinn on the shelves. And who else is going to reconstruct Gaza? After all, everyone knows there is only ONE humanitarian crisis in the world, and it’s obviously the one created by those evil Jewish Zionist oppressors. Responding to constant rocket fire by attacking back; it’s as if they didn’t get the memo that violence is only acceptable as long as its done by Arabs or other minorities who we clearly think don’t know any better.
In fact, fuck giving Gaza students scholarships to come to NYU - why expose them to our disgusting capitalist bourgeois system when they live in such a vibrant traditional community free from the evils of Coca-Cola advertising and rights for women. I say, instead, all members of Take Back NYU! should immediately be sent to Gaza to single-handedly channel their protest initiative into creating a utopia that would rival even the Soviet Union or (dare I say it!) Cuba. We could even weave our own retarded black-and-white scarves and not have to buy them from Urban Outfitters!
In short, I salute you comrades. Your ceaseless effort to avoid productive labor while constantly preaching about the working man proletarian is something to truly marvel at. Long live the Retard Revolution!
Liz, you would do well to inform yourself of the fact better. As someone who participated in the 9 pm. rush to enter the occupied space, I can tell you that the only reason any guards were struck at all was because they threw themselves in front of a moving crowd. While any injury is unfortunate, a distinction needs to be made between non-malicious, accidental, and unculpable injuries (remember, the guards who were “hit” equally collided with the students who “hit” them) and those that are intentional (such as pulling a person from the balcony, and the detainment of students after the barricades were breached). And as someone who was in that rush, I can tell you that a number of guards who attempted to prevent entry instigated the physical nature of the event by knocking students down and bullrushing against doors that students were actively using (in my particular case, a guard saw me holding a door open, knocked me to the ground, and proceeded to slam into the door until it closed on my leg).
Yes, it is unfortunate that guards were injured in this occupation, but we need to make a distinction between the type of violence usedy by the two sides and the reason that physical contact occurred at all.
So you bum-rush the building at 9 p.m. last night? Remember the last time a herd of people stampeded into a building, someone got squashed to death? Black Friday 2008 at Walmart wasn’t such a long time ago.
Those security guards wouldn’t have been there if your group hadn’t staged a damned takeover. They would have just minded their posts during their shifts or gone home to a hot supper with their families.
So much talk about respecting NYU workers. What about these security guards who had to deal with your crazy antics — especially the two that got smacked around and had to be sent to hospital? Now that’s disrespectful.
Put yourself in the shoes of a security guard. Your job is to SECURE a building — to keep order. A bunch of rowdies come rushing in. What do you do? Let them in, or do you do your job and use everything at your disposal to hold the crowd back?
Nobody believes a word you say other than those who already bought into your cause. Sorry.
So, should NYU stand by and let a small group of students block access to a University building? Just because you’re “protesting” or doing whatever you call it doesn’t mean you can go wherever you want whenever you want.
The guards were clearly blocking access and it was clear the university did not want you to enter the building, which is their right given the circumstances. You chose to disobey anyway. Deal with the consequences and grow up.
you lost. get the fuck over it. you were stupid making so many ridiculous demands and taking over a center that should have been open to students. most nyu students are so embarrassed because of the actions of a few morons. so stop whining and have fun on your time off—oh i mean suspension
Well there you go in your own words. You rushed the guards first. You people are ridiculous and disgraced NYU. Way to bring shame on our university
If a bunch of committed fascists rush into your beloved local food coop after business hours chanting slogans, should you be prohibited from using reasonable force to keep them out?
What if they rush into your home?
You need to explain WHY a university should be run by its students before you make such ludicrous claims such as that the provider of a service cannot set the terms by which he provides the service to his customers and enforce these terms the same way in which anyone is able to defend his or her own property (oh, sorry, maybe you don’t believe in “property”). I know I would never want to attend a school that was run by its students - would you?
So how’d those demands go?
Grow up.
what? you’re saying the guards instigated the violence, but you guys were the one who “stormed” the building in the first place. also, the reason they stuck themselves in front of a moving crowd is because they are GUARDS, it is their job.
EJ
How is a moving crowd trying to enter an area which guards do not want the student entering and are thus blocking not a non-malicious? It is in no way accidental…
The guards did their job… the student used the force, so they guards had to compensate.
They should have just tear-gassed the whole 3rd floor on your all.
It’s a private school. You have no say. You signed up, even paid, for it. If you have such a big fucking problem, drop out. No one will care.
PS - The Che Guevara quotes and Zapatista references on the site really make you guys just look like spoiled bourgeois pseudo-intellectuals. You are not the proletariat, you go to NYU.
One more thing… Even IF you succeed in showing why a university should be run by its students, you then must show two more thing:
1. Why YOU get to unilaterally shut everyone else out of university space they use to eat and study without a democratic vote or similar fair process.
2. Why those who came to NYU with the understanding that intelligent committed professionals would be guiding their education (as opposed to students, who, as recent events have shown, can frequently be neither intelligent nor professional) should be denied of their right to this form of education.
Silly me, I thought the job of university security was to ensure the safety of students, not to prevent people from sitting in a cafeteria and going in and out of buildings.
The powers that be are obviously desperate when their only response to entirely reasonable demands - who is against financial transparency and human rights? - is to use physical force against the people they are supposed to be serving.
This video shows the police brutality much more clearly. Check out the beatings this cop is giving at 1min, 45seconds into the video. We cannot allow this to stand!
Exactly - the guards were there to keep people out. Yet you put yourselves and the guards at risk by “rushing” the place. You must’ve “rushed” knowing that injury was a risk. What if someone had simply fallen and gotten trampled? Who’s fault would it have been? Everyone who was rushing the place and creating a dangerous situation. Shame on you all.
Oops!
here’s the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLbAAZnMlw
This is crap, tased demonstrators? I’ve yet to see or hear anything about it from anyone I know and I’ve spoken to people who were there at the rally (by the way, they weren’t supporting TBNYU there). They didn’t even see pepper spray or anything. They also said that many people at the rally were drunk - how can that help the situation?
I’ve yet to see how the University “instigated” the violence in any fashion. It seems to me that you guys were the ones to do so.
It’s like running into a brick wall and being surprised that you got hurt.
If anyone can identify that cop’s name or number from his badge, we need to call for him to be investigated!
Go boys in blue!
Best, most insightful, comment I’ve read about what is going on at NYU:
“So our advice to these kids is to go have a fucking cigarette and then Drop Out. Tell your parents to put the tuition money in a trust fund so you can continue living the life to which you were born accustomed as you volunteer to build some fucking houses somewhere, and then when that runs out why not get your degree at CUNY or something so you can sleep better at night.”
Source: http://gawker.com/5156815/let-us-consider-the-nyu-twerps
In the same video you can see the pepper spray attacks at around 3 minutes, and 5 seconds. Ironically the cop who gave the beat down got some of their own mace in his eye. Unfortunately, so did I and a bunch of other innocent, peaceful protesters demonstrating to make NYU live up to the institution it wants you to think it is.
Please post my comment, which has been under moderation for hours now. If you truly believe in free speech and transparency, do not block the posts of those who disagree with you.
“Check out the beatings this cop is giving at 1min, 45seconds into the video. We cannot allow this to stand!”
So go occupy another building, idiots. After all, it worked so well the first time…
Take Back NYU? You never had it. It’s a private school.
Jinxie, did you seriously just say innocent, peaceful protesters? Are you talking about the ones that rushed the police line to get into the building? Are you talking about the ones that were spitting at people that didn’t agree with them? Are you talking about the ten that ran after one person in an attempt to beat him up? Are you talking about the ones that were yelling in one person’s face and generally being hostile since he had a megaphone and did not support their cause? Are you talking about the people with bandannas over their faces that were extremely belligerent? I am sure that some of the protesters were peaceful, but most of them were not.
All that is proven by this video is that the so-called peaceful protesters pushed against the barricade and, when the police acted in self-defense and pushed back, (albeit with better means than simply pushing), taunting the police officers. Provoking violence is a form of violence in and of itself. Just because that idiot girl in the video is screaming to the police to stop doesn’t mean she has a reason to be screaming. They shouldn’t have been pushing to begin with. Peaceful protest means without physical force. Pushing, last I checked, is a form of physical force.
So wait the only reason these officers were struck was because they put themselves in front of a moving crowd that shouldn’t have been there in the first place? Then they did their jobs And I don’t see why people make a big deal out of pepper spray and nightsticks when the crowd violently forced their way into kimmel, injuring two officers. People act like it’s illegal. Seriously, it’s a slap on the wrist compared to coalition’s doings in the last couple days. And I’m not just comparing physical demonstrations, I’m talking about proper attitude as well.
My two cents… You should have handled it like Improv everywhere. Make it more secret. Perhaps have half the protestors already in the building before it could ever be closed or shut down… Then, when no staff member is around, lock the doors from the inside with chains and locks! Then destroy your laptops to show you mean business!
I’m with Liz. You fault the university for spinning the story, but you are doing the same.
Some of the causes TBNYU are fighting for are reasonable, but the execution is irrational. I can only support a coalition that will peacefully bring forth the issues to the table and cause a significant change we can all appreciate and be proud of. Even if the demands are met, I wouldn’t be proud of the execution. Maybe the immature and poorly executed plans for TBNYU will inspire a true coalition, one that I can say I’d be proud to be a part of.
Once again my single contribution is to destroy any advertisement of TBNYU that I stumble upon.
You’re a bunch of morons - you have gotten no sympathy from anyone. You have impeached whatever iota of credibility you have had. The moment you brought Israel into the mix, and supported the Palestinians indirectly, you shot yourself in the foot. Every student involved, no matter what their participation was shold be EXPELLED!
Jinxie - since I am a retired NYPD police officer - let me suggest to you this:
1) Force CCRB to investigate this;
2) So it can be easy to effect and arrest on you for your actions;
3) Instead of protesting, take a police science course and disseminate yourself with “Justified Force” - and “NON-LETHAL” weapons as well as the stages of force and how this force is elevated.
Schmuck!
LOL AT JAN…FORREAL
CAN THEY BE EXPELLED ANY QUICKER?
Hey, don’t worry about all the hate. What you guys did was awesome. From what I’ve heard, it sounds like there’s a lot of annoyed folks at your school, but who cares?
At a school like NYU, you get some cool people, and a large portion of rich, white, elitist douche-bags who are going to care more about not getting their favorite meal than how much tuition they have to pay or whether non-white people are being slaughtered. The people who are complaining and calling you childish are the real children. In the adult world people band together around sit-ins so they can actually win demands, rather than criticizing those willing to fight for their interests. Just look at the recent Republic Windows factory occupation.
At my school, people are starting to hear about the occupation and are generally incredibly supportive. Maybe we’ll do one here. Just remember that not all of us can count on mommy and daddy to pay off the skyrocketing tuition at our schools as they dump more and more of our tuition money into murder. The rich and privileged douchebags may hate you, but you’re an inspiration to the rest of us.
Oh please you are spoiled brats. If you want to organize a protest, get a committee together and involve the community. NYU is a private school with loads of endowments. Why are you guys so worried about them opening their books? Is this midterm madness? Go to class and stop this violent idiocy. The security guards were doing their job; you were “storming” a college building!! You have a nerve being so elitist; if you want lower tuition, there are loads of great state schools, and of course there’s the City University, still a collection of fine institutions of higher learning. Get over yourselves and learn how to really organize a political protest if that’s what your agenda is. This is 2009, not 1968. Your actions show a total lack of respect for the rest of the NYU community and the surrounding neighborhood.
Excuse me, but if you put yourself on a metal barrier that is there to keep you separated from peacekeeping officials, you take a risk. That risk is being beaten by someone with a heavy stick, its no mystery but it might be difficult for hipsters to understand. I guarantee that if you all had just stood there and not pushed on the metal thing in front of you, none of this would have happened and NYU would be freer than Cooper Union by now. But alas, don’t worry, Barack Obama heard about this via text message on his golden Blackberry and will put on his change panties and come to your next slumber party. Maybe we can all sit in the library of congress’ food court until he withdraws the 17000 troops he just sent to Afghanistan this wee. Congratulations, you elected a person who’s going to tax the hell out of this giant private institution and and take the money they could have been giving us and instead use it to bail out GM so your rich parents can continue to get a new Denali every 2 years.
When you invade and occupy a guarded building, *you* are instigating the use of force, not the guards.
i’d like the individuals who had excessive force (ie, tasers, pepper spray) to come forward and explain and show the marks from said tasers and beatings.. because until then, i think you’re exaggerating everything as you have done through this entire ordeal. also, when you’re speaking on camera, try not to say “ummm liiiike” between every word. if you want to be seen as intelligent, articulate people then portray that image accurately.
Waaaah!
I touched the stove and it was hot!
You guys genuinely do not get it. Either that or you get it and you’re unwilling to admit it.
First, there is a way to go about these sorts of things. While there are some issues that might make it reasonable to occupy a building in protest, your issues here do not rise to that level. Yeah, I would like to see the university books too. However, I’m not going to go round up my friends and occupy the financial offices in order to achieve this goal. Similarly, when my professor says something I disagree with, I don’t occupy his office with my friends either.
Instead, if I were really concerned, I would engage in some sort of dialogue with the powers that be. Perhaps that took place here prior to this stunt. However, it’s actually irrelevant. The point of a dialogue is DISCUSSION, not to necessarily get what you want. If there was a dialogue and the outcome came out against you, that’s too bad. That’s how dialogues work. If they listened but decided not to agree with you anyway, that’s how it is. Given that, and based upon the fact that I’ve read that your group in fact refused to negotiate with the administration when it was offered, it’s impossible to have sympathy for you. You were given the chance to talk and then you refused. What other choice did the university have?
Second, regarding the use “force,” anyone who rushed the building or moved the barricade most likely got what they deserved. The whole point of a barricade in a situation like this is to try a very fine line. That line says “This is the absolute farthest point you can go before we will physically stop you. If you go beyond this point, even one inch, we will stop you with force.” You crossed the line, WHICH WAS THE USE OF FORCE, and you paid the price (in addition to a security officer or two who were just doing their jobs). The idea that rushing a building is not somehow the use of force is ridiculous, particularly when the police are there guarding it against precisely this sort of thing.
That being said, if the police used excessive force (which would be fact dependent) then they deserve to be held accountable for that. However, nothing I’ve read so far indicates that they crossed that line. Even if they did use excessive force, that doesn’t somehow legitimize this whole protest.
I read somewhere that someone shouted “this is democracy” during the demonstration. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t know, but I can tell you one thing: this demonstration was not democracy. It was the precise opposite of democracy. It was the use of force to try to get your way either before or after dialogue had its chance. If it was before the dialogue, you should have accepted the university’s offer to talk. If it was after the dialogue, then you’re just out of luck because that’s the point of a dialogue; sometimes you don’t get your way. That’s how democracy and free speech work. If you insist that your side is correct, you continue to appeal to the public and maybe give it another go in a while. You don’t occupy buildings and disrupt the lives of a few hundred or thousand people in order to “make” them listen.
Grow up. You (the occupiers) will get what you deserve, which is hopefully expulsion.
Since when does NYPD hitting kids mean NYU incited violence? Since when does NYU run the NYPD? I guess i learned something today.
Why don’t these students just drop out and go get their education at a school they agree with? Or is the status of being an “NYU graduate” that important?
I love when people behave obnoxiously and then whine when they incite force from authorities. The irony is that, in all likelihood, force from the authorities was desired in the hopes it would invoke sympathy for the protesters.
Not the case.
As an undergrad of the NYU student body, I want to express my disapproval of the action of these students. What really bugs me and many of my peers is not that a group of students gave the NYU administration a hard time with Kimmel and kept us out of the building for a day, nor is it that they were voicing opinions that might be unpopular. The real issue is that they have painted this situation in black and white. The administration versus the students. I had a conversation with a protester from Hunter last night who insisted that Palestinians represented the oppressed and Israel the oppressors, just as the students barricading themselves in Kimmel were being oppressed by the administration. Neither situation involves a clear determination of good and evil, and making all the noise and using the most vile rhetoric you can think of won’t make that true. The administration infuriates me with their unwillingness to make NYU’s budget transparent. There are, however, good people working for this university trying to do good things. Even John Sexton deserves a little more respect than you’re giving him here (though he certainly doesn’t deserve a private jet). By making so many demands you made it impossible for most students to support you. I have nothing but compassion for the Palestinians in Gaza, but insisting that Israel is the sole oppressor (as the protestor I talked to did) in the situation is a preposterous claim I can’t support. When I insisted that the only way for Palestinians to help themselves was nonviolent protest, this angry protestor told me that condemning the violence (in this case ACTS OF TERRORISM) by the oppressed was tantamount to oppression. How can you get any support by alienating students who basically agree with you? When you talk to people like that it isn’t any wonder that most of the undergraduate student body (from the cross section I’ve experienced) sees the protesters as over privileged, ignorant, reactionist pseudo-intellectuals spouting their own propaganda. This girl had the nerve to tell me that Israel was the only country with wealth in the middle east, and therefore unworthy of sympathy over the suicide bombings and rocket attacks! As if Saudi Arabia and the UAE were poor nations downtrodden by the cruel boot of capitalism. I’m all for taking action, but first a person NEEDS to get educated, which is why MOST of us are at NYU. Not to become martyrs. To get an education.
Next time, please do your homework and lose the ego. I think most of us want a transparent budget, and because you DIDN’T win (through no one’s fault but your own) you just made that dream a little bit farther from reality.
As a more personal plea, I would beg that this group of students use all of their passion and verve to create beauty in the world, not spread hate. If you want to help Palestinians (which is a most noble goal), go to Gaza and use the teachings of MLK and Ghandi to help organize non-violent protest. The Israeli Army cannot sustain it’s abuses without the support of the international community, and if the Palestinian people wholeheartedly abandon violence and embrace non-violent civil disobedience there will be no international support for Israel’s occupation. So please, use your fire to make the world a better place, but also use the gift of education that your privileged upbringing gave you.
Adhering to the capiitalist & bourgeois idea that property is sacred will only leave/lead you to the death trap that is bourgeois capitalism.
Destroying property that is oppresive and repressive to democratiic liberatiion seems like a rational and logical course of action to be acceptable to all seeking a democratic and liberated existence.
If an action occurs with not a single part of living tissue results in, or is intended to be, harmed how is such an action violent?
Violence is what non-democratic institutions like NYU, CUNY, the New School, NYPD, US DOD, Israeli IDF and their supporters perpetuate on a daily basis. Violence is fundamental to their dominance and their existence. Abolish them as need be!
Hope to assist as capable and needed.
Peace, Love, Solidarity & Democracy for all who want it and need it
If you hate NYU so much then go to another school! why did you even come here in the first place? you all deserve to be expelled. no one will miss you idiots!
There’s no “invasion;” that’s such a bogus concept in this context. Invasion is what the US did in Iraq. The NYU students pay the fees that make the entire institution function. Without them, the university has no purpose. What law of nature suggests that people ought to be subject to autocratic rule? That’s how NYU functions: “You pay me your fees but have no genuine voice as to what/where/when/how those funds are being utilized. In fact, you’re not even allowed to know.”
That’s not how an educational facility should operate. That’s not how ANY institution should operate. It’s inherently undemocratic. Thus, their demands were (and are) legitimate.
And let’s be very clear about what “force” is. Force is when you cut off the electricity to a building in order to silence discontent and in order to get around any diplomatic negotiations. If a guard moves in front of a group of people attempting to access a building, it’s because the guard’s boss FORCED him/her to do so. The guard is compelled to obey orders; otherwise he/she faces the implicit threat of being fired. THAT’S an example of force.
The administration is responsible for injuries during the demonstrations because they refused to listen to a group of people that had legitimate demands, far outnumbered them, AND pays their salaries.
To imply that the students “initiated force” or “invaded” - so as to justify the actual violence that these students suffered on behalf of NYU guards and the police - is a genuinely unrealistic picture.
You pathetic little spoiled morons.. You have the support of no more than 1% of the student body. If you disagree, explain why there were not thousands of people out there? You are a tiny group of self-important psuedo intellectuals.
You know what democracy looks like? It looks like tens of thousands of NYU students who chose not to support your illegal and idiotic adventure.
you people are morons. the guards were doing their jobs (trying to protect everyone from your illegal and asinine attacks), as were the police (trying to keep the crowd under control, which it was not in the least–in fact the rowdy crowds were putting themselves/others at risk) and therefore any force they used was necessary. you guys are acting like it’s the guards’ and police’s fault when you were the ones who instigated a riot by illegal means. you remind me of the young kids i used to babysit who would act up and then get mad at me for disciplining them.
while i fully support freedom of speech and the freedom to protest, you have gone about it in completely the wrong way (i have said this several times on your blog and WSN’s). if you wanted to get your word out you should have formed a picket line, distributed flyers, held meetings, etc. instead of disrupting our lives as students, faculty and nyu employees (not to mention those living in the neighborhood).
you deserve everything you get. i think you should be arrested and expelled for your brazen lack of care for anyone but yourselves.
Note to JINXIE:
“Ironically the cop who gave the beat down got some of their own mace in his eye.”
Technically speaking, that is not irony.
if you hate nyu’s policies and administration, maybe you should transfer to a different school.
though i agree with many of your demands, your childish behavior makes it impossible for anyone to take them or you seriously.
also i really wanted to go to kimmel yesterday and because of you, i couldn’t. i pay good money for my meal plan.
Curiosa, in case you hadn’t noticed, this campaign has been going on for 2 years and the tactics you mentioned have all been tried. Time after time, the NYU administration has refused to meet or listen to any of these concerns. All the while, this same administration has been supporting violence (in Gaza and Iraq (hence demand regarding war profiteering), and Colombia (see demand in regard to Coke) and union busting (see demands in regard to GSOC, workers in Abu Dhabi, etc.). The tactics you mention work if the institution is already a democracy and voices are respected. In NYU’s case, the administration uses students’ money to perpetuate these crimes in secrecy and with no democratic principles.
Yes, it’s a guard’s job to guard. It’s also a student’s job to question institutional ethics. NYU markets itself as a liberal institution with a safe and open learning environment, and these students are trying to help it live up to these standards.
I can think of a lot of examples from American history in which innocent people with similarly legitimate reasons for civil disobedience were beaten by guards. I can’t think of a lot of examples in which those people deserved it. It is pretty breathtaking how history repeats itself, and pretty infuriating that the bulk of the ire in these comments has been directed at those who seek open dialogue rather than those who seek to shut it down.
This protest was not that well organized. One thing is to demand rights and greater explanation for those rights, but breaking into private property, injuring a security guard who has NOTHING to do with the school finances, and taking away the kimmel center from the students, professors, and other faculty members (especially the commuters) who do NOT agree with you nor your plans is beyond lunacy.
Nobody is going to want to deal with you seriously or fairly if this keeps going on. And another thing not all students agree with your demands, so you shouldn’t be trying to represent all of NYU because alot of people don’t want you to.
So drop out and go to a school that meets your needs. What a bunch of spoiled brats. As someone who was not lucky enough to be able to go to college, this whole “occupation” really chaps my ass.
obviously the “campaign” hasn’t been as widespread as you think. this is my 5th year as an NYU student and the only mention of TBNYU i had ever heard (aside from the mishegoss of the past couple of days) was their name in graffiti all over campus. i am somewhat active in the NYU social action community. i have never once seen them handing out flyers or picketing.
NYU does listen to its students. we were successful with the coke ban in 04 (or was it 05, i don’t remember) which was only overturned recently after SEVERAL discussions/votes in which students were invited to participate.
i am by no means trying to say that NYU is perfect or that there aren’t changes that need to be made in its administration. i am saying, though, that when you act in a childish and asinine way as the boys and girls of TBNYU have done this week, you remove any and all legitimacy from your campaign. especially listing legal amnesty as one of your demands–if you can’t take the heat, get out of the dining hall.
you people are nothing but a spoiled bunch of anarchist socialist idiots who have never worked a day in your life…..here’s a tip for you…the next time you want to try to start a revolution, you may want bring your own freaking food!!
now go get your education and go get a freaking job! just like the rest of us!!!
“In NYU’s case, the administration uses students’ money to perpetuate these crimes in secrecy and with no democratic principles.”
I don’t understand. Does someone have a gun to your head forcing you to attend and give your enabling tuition money to NYU?
how many sockpockets supporting this action have been posting here today?
unbelievable.
To the “love it or leave it” mentality:
I don’t understand. Does someone force you to live with Bush as president? If you don’t like him, don’t elect someone else! Just leave!
If that’s what you’ve learned in school, then NYU really does need to give you better education for your money.
i bet you are all wondering why your blog has been targetted so viciously by people claiming to be new-yorkers or ‘fellow students’…it’s simple : you were acting in solidarity with gaza, and every pro-zionist troll in the world was alerted to this fact via this website and it’s nifty downloadable ‘insta-zion troll’ application…
http://giyus.org/
they can mega-phone you all they want, but no that there are MANY people around the world who appreciate what you guys did and stand in solidarity with you.
@ Marianna
NYU is a private institution, not a democratic nation. You, my retard, are human pollution.
You guys need to read up on what peaceful protests really mean. Read up on Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil rights movement. Read about how groups stood together, breaking the law to make their stance, but truly doing it peacefully. Watch your own videos. Do your “supporters” seem peaceful? The civil rights movement REALLY followed Gandhi’s ideals and gained support because they were beaten with no real need. THEY TOOK THE BEATINGS WITHOUT FIGHTING BACK. This is what garnered sympathy and attention for their movement. You guys gained no sympathy, got none of your demands met, and just pissed off a ton of people. YOU HAVE HURT YOUR CAUSE MORE THAN ANYTHING and it is a shame, because some of your ideas probably were worth fighting for.
you pay the university for an education and conditional use of THEIR property. when you violate the terms of use on THEIR property, you are TRESPASSING and are subject to any sort of force that NYPD or NYU wants/needs to use to stop you from violating use of THEIR property
Both students responsible for assaulting the NYU guards and the police officer who assaulted students outside should be held responsible.
The clubbing of the students was excessive use of force. Why is it he felt so threatened whereas the other officer maintained the barricade without drawing their clubs?
Likewise, students that charged the guards causing injury should be accountable for their action. But this is if and only if the guards feel it necessary to punish them. The guards are here to protect students, not be assaulted by them. I know some will disagree with me on this, but the guard should not be responsible if she has any health issues resulting from it. If the guard will settle for an apology for the accident then it can be overlooked.
But the police officer cannot issue a similar apology. He overstepped the boundary of accident and full assault. It was not the students intention to injure the NYU guards, but the police officer knowingly drew a weapon on a student, and without warning, hit him not once but dozens of times.
Sam, those outside that were protesting in solidarity with them were not on NYU property, should they be subject to “any force that NYPD or NYU wants/needs to use”? And I disagree with “wants/needs”. Force should be used for necessity, not because they want to punish them. With that logic, would you be okay if they shot a protester because that’s what NYU wanted, not needed to end the occupation? That’s a little troubling.
My god… the cynicism and cowardly nature of all the people posting on this website makes me cringe. The kids at NYU did something good. They proposed righteous demands (some unrealistic some not) and put up a fight. But the only thing there classmates can do is cringe with embarrassment??? How bout some solidarity you skumbags. Everyone who posted a quippy little comment on here about the kids who took part in this action. What are you doing with your fabulous life that allows you to be so aloof. Unbelievable and pathetic.
“Shamed the University???” Are you ridiculous. In order to make above minimum people have to attend some kind of college and get a piece of paper. And even that guarantees nothing. NYU is not a privilege or a prestigious institution that we should all silently pay homage and respect to. It plays an integral role in furnishing New York with a fresh bunch of middle class intellectuals and white collar workers. Something that all of the snide bloggers on this site clearly are striving to be. The “Take Back NYU” have a lot more of my respect than any one else because they don’t fit that category. They are questioning there role in all that….
As for the nay sayers, you are all cowards losers who are to afraid to fight for anything. People like you always complain about “the wrong demands” or “the wrong tactics” This is nothing new, when confronted with the possibility of action, most people would rather play cheerleader for the cops and shine the masters boots.
Solidarity to all those who act up. Don’t listen to the riff raff
Since when was NYU a public institution?
Solidarity with your cause, your protest, and your ultimate failure.
Next time organize better. More teach-ins, more members, more alliance building. I would have been there if I weren’t 1000 miles away.
Somebody should have gotten a giant slingshot and fired loaves of bread and bottled water up onto the balcony.
But yeah, more forethought could have led to a successful result. I’m very proud of you all and the rest of these assholes can go to hell. Every movement has its growing pains, its unfortunate that you had to make mistakes for the rest of us to learn from.
Solidarity!
These protests and demands have gotten ridiculous and you guys are depriving other NYU students, who are working hard to pay the tuition, the right to get what they pay for. You are an embarrassment to NYU and what it stands for. I hope you all get expelled and charged for the disruption. I’m usually ok with peaceful protests but you disrupt all of those who are trying to get the education they are paying for. Plus you are not peaceful nor respectful. Free speech is a right given to us but when that speech is followed by action, it no longer is accepted. Last semester’s Bobst protest showed me how much u really care about your fellow students…you clearly don’t since you decided to enter one of the few silent places available for study during finals week. Some of us want to make something of ourselves and if you don’t like the school you CHOSE to go to, LEAVE…we don’t need you. I’m sure your parents will appreciate not paying the tuition anymore for their ungrateful spoiled children. And for those who don’t even go to NYU…get a life and stay in your own school if all you want to do is disrupt ours. (lets see how my right to free speech is respected here…)
I would prefer that the commenters criticizing the NYU student protests would not invoke those “other schools,” like CUNY, that NYU students can go to if they’re “so unhappy.” You idiots don’t know shit about the corruption going on among the administration at CUNY and apparently know nothing about NY State and NYC’s current assault on CUNY students’ education, which is MY education.
The students at NYU are fighting something much larger than themselves, a pattern that is being reflected in universities across the country, including CUNY. As a CUNY student I stand in solidarity with them and can assure them that this fight is not NEARLY over.
And dear Sam, wherever do you think the money for NYU’s property came from? the sky?
Those of you claiming that “the occupiers only had marginal support of the NYU community” can’t possibly pretend to speak for the NYU community as a whole. Last time I checked, there wasn’t a pre-occupation poll done. Just because a student or NYU worker couldn’t/didn’t make it to the protest/occupation doesn’t mean that they don’t support it or empathize with at least one (if not more or all) of the demands. So hopefully some good will come out of this and these demands will be more conscionable by the NYU community.
And of course the students are now going from “disliked to loathed” because the media looooves to support the opinions of the business community through printed word. Because it’s a part of that community!
For those suggesting that they “should all be suspended/arrested/have their lives ruined/etc.” are projecting some seriously misdirected hostility. I mean, the way you type, you act like these kids killed your puppy or something! But what’s really the worse thing that happened? They unintentionally - and without premeditation - injured a guard. Meanwhile, who knows what NYU’s profits are funneled toward. Probably something A LOT more premeditated and intentionally injurious than what happened to this guard, which the media covering it loves talking about. What about the kids who were intentionally attacked by police with clubs and pepper spray? I suppose that’s excusable (in your heads) since you believe it’s the job of the police to break up “illegal” assemblies and protests? A simply unbelievable contempt for constitutional and human rights.
And the administration doesn’t/shouldn’t have the right to allocate funds towards whatever it wants - especially if it violates federal or international law! I seriously commend them for recognizing this fact - even as the media chose to ignore it or dress it up as a “fringe” demand.
If yall take a poll of suporters vs. nonsupporters (or people who don’t give a crap) you will see that you guys are a minority. Some of the demands and tactics are ridiculous and that is probably why you aren’t getting any further. Maybe you should cut down on the stupid demands (like allowing general access to bobst) and focus on the point of the protest which is seeing where the money goes. I personally don’t give a crap b/c I know that I’m getting a better education than I would get at a CUNY (no offence) and its money well spent. (don’t pull a “your parents money” comment b/c I work and pay for my own education) What they do with the money is their business as long as I see it being spent for us students. New computers and labs, new equipment, remodeling of buildings, (I would even be ok if some money went to the remodeling of the park b/c it was an ugly park), AC and heating, renting Yankee Stadium, Radio City, Lincoln Center, etc for graduation ceremonies…all that stuff costs money and the results are seen after everything is done. Transparency is a good thing but I personally don’t think anything will change if I knew what the money was going toward b/c some of it has to go to those in charge. If i owned a business I would hope to profit from it and the money people pay me will go to their benifit as well as mine and its my business what I do with my money/profit.
This whole mess is one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen. Who the hell came up with your list of demands? “Please don’t punish us, we know we’re breaking laws and school policies but we’re DEMOCRATIC and have CONSENSUS and SOLIDARITY.” Guess what, there’s nothing democratic about a small group of people trying to take over somebody else’s building. Also nice job on tacking on something about Gaza at the end there. Perhaps NYU could send supplies to students in other places. Oh wait, caring about those places isn’t trendy enough.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2426264673933994555&hl=en
This is a perfect summary of the whole sorry affair, especially towards the end of the video. People raging about SUITS and CORPORATIONS while using Macbooks.
Also, if you guys care so much about Palestine, why not start a fund for Palestinian students and make donations yourself instead of demanding that somebody else do it? Selling those $2000 Macbooks would give you some good money to start with.
This has been one of the most poorly thought out and depressing campaigns for anything that I have ever seen. Anyone studying at NYU has real power, whether they know it or not, and to see it used in such an infantile way is really, really disheartening.
Self-righteousness was the theme of this whole thing from start to finish, and when that’s the goal, rather than dialogue, we all lose out.
I hope the people who took part in it learn to channel their passion in ways that are productive. Idealism, however much it gets your adrenaline going, and however useful it is for summoning a crowd, does not create solutions. Infantile idealism is just downright dangerous.
Also, I hope NYU does not fuck around. These people need to be expelled. There’s nothing more clear cut. The way they spoke to the security guards alone is reason enough.
Blind attacks on people in uniform is no better than blind support for the same. These security guards are real people. Some are probably sub-par, and some probably care a great, great deal about keeping you all safe.
Take a minute to think about that.
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